Diddy, Sampling, and Problematic Artists: A Conversation with J.D. Housley

This is the proper way to resolve an online argument

A few weeks ago, J.D. Housley and I got in an argument on the internet. As I’m sure you know, internet arguments can quickly devolve into chaos. What started out as me making a comment about disgraced producer Diddy turned into a contentious debate about the nature and validity of sampling in hip-hop music. Rather than getting into an online war, I decided to invite Housley here to talk it out.

This was one of the most fascinating conversations that I’ve ever had for this newsletter. And if you find Housley as insightful as I did, you should subscribe to his newsletter, The Signifyin(g) Review. It’s all about what’s going on in contemporary Black music.

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First, tell me a bit about yourself and how you’ve been involved with music.

I've been in and around music since 1998. I started by making hip-hop heavily inspired by J Dilla. Then in early 2000, I signed to LL Cool J's production company. I came very close to getting a couple song placements, but then I decided to continue with college.

From there, I moved on to the industry side and distribution. I started working for a physical distribution company that has since gone out of business. So, I’ve been in and around music for decades. Recently, I made the switch from creation to criticism. I’m focused on contemporary Black music. Lots of criticism focuses on new releases and retrospectives, but I don’t think we engage enough with how the avant-garde is alive right now. We usually don’t recognize it until long after.

Could you give me an example of what you mean by “avant-garde”?

So, let’s talk about jazz. Jazz was born in the Black communities of New Orleans and evolved during the first half of the 20th century. I think by the 1960s, we pushed it to its limits. Since then, I don’t think jazz has changed that fundamentally. For me, that was the avant garde.

Eventually, hip-hop came around. That was also a Black genre typically made by people between the ages of 20 and 40. Looking back we can see how cutting edge that music was. It stands to reason that some of that same innovation is going on right now. I want to recognize that.

Do you think hip-hop in its current form is still cutting edge?

There is certainly hip-hop that is cutting edge, but most people won’t recognize it until long after. Let me give you a good example. There is lots of country music right now that is using sonics from hip-hop in 2005. Now that other styles are co-opting that sound, we can look back and realize that it was very innovative at the time. This is a common cycle. I’m trying to get ahead and see it as it’s going on now.

That’s an interesting point. I often think that while Morgan Wallen is billed as a country artist, he is making hip-hop. Yes, he sings with a drawl, but his music is packed with tittering hi hats and 808s.

Exactly. But that sound isn’t new. It sounds like 2005 T-Paine. This is a pattern that gets repeated over and over.

Let’s turn back to your experience in the industry. When your career started in 1998, the industry was about to be greatly reshaped by Napster, digital distribution, and the internet. What was your experience like during those tumultuous years?

When I learned how to write and mix, it was on a mix of digital and analog equipment, but distribution was still all physical CDs. I was young, so I was aware of Napster and file sharing, but I don’t think anyone understood what was about to happen. When I moved into distribution after college, it was clear that a seismic change was ongoing. The era where you could promote a 12-song album every few years was over. Songs were becoming decoupled from albums.

One thing that fascinates me is how music is often downstream of technology. That’s backwards from how many people think about art. What do you make of that?

Popular music is fascinating because it’s almost all driven by technology. You don’t get rock music unless someone invents the electric guitar. A bunch of hip-hop doesn’t happen without the drum machine. Pop songs became three minutes because that’s how much early records could hold. Symphonies got smashed down. Artists have to work within the constraints of technology. People like to think all of these are aesthetic choices, but they are often functional choices.

I’ve heard a rumor that the early jazz classic “Tiger Rag” is played at such a fast tempo because they had to speed up the recording to fit the 78-rpm disc format that was popular at the time. Now, when people play it, they play it at that lightning speed.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

Anyway, you can still innovate within those technological constraints, but the constraints are real. I think that’s where the avant garde you were talking about exists.

Yes. A good example of that is how early hip-hop artists didn’t have access to instruments, so they innovated with the technology that was available. I think that’s a big part of the African-American musical tradition.

We initially connected when I posted the following joke online:

Chris Dalla RivaMay 3

When Diddy is sentenced, the judge should also consider his decades of lazy samples and bad songs. Horrible person. Horrible artist.

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You replied to this saying that Diddy was a very important producer. Then we started arguing about how he used samples. Then the conversation devolved into a quasi-argument about sampling. Rather than getting into an online war, I decided to invite you here to chat about some of this stuff. Acknowledging that he is obviously a heinous person, can you tell me what you were getting at when we first started going back and forth about Diddy and sampling?