The mention of Mary Wells reminded me that I mildly disagree with “My Girl” being an answer to “My Guy” in your “Ask Chris” column. Motown writers turned out a ton of material in those days. The best answer song that did about as well as the original was written and produced by Holland-Dozier-Holland for the Four Tops. “I Can’t Help Myself” was a big hit, and Berry Gordy asked for another one just like it. So H-D-H and the 4 Tops threw it right back at him, with the follow-up: “It’s the Same Old Song,” and it was, but it was also a hit.😎✌️💃🏼
Great article, Chris. We are seeing this at weddings, too, in that anything older than the 90s is classic music. It's almost to the point that the '90s are working their way to being classic, too. I think when I DJ'd in the 90s, many of the artists were on my playlists you mentioned like Three Dog Night's Joy To The World, and John Mellencamp's Hurt So Good.
Hopefully, all music has a return to some extent and will not be forgotten. I guess that is our job to pass on.
What an awesome analysis. To me it shows how the explosion of apps like TikTok have changed the game when it comes to musical attitudes. But a 15 second clip is nothing compared to 7 minutes of Hey Jude.
This is interesting AND disturbing! Clearly Spotify has not been including some of my playlists in its tabulations.... It makes me want to heighten my own coverage of many of these artists such as Linda Ronstadt, Carole King, Donna Summer, The Pointer Sisters, Huey Lewis & the News, The Fifth Dimension, Barry Manilow....Ok, all of them!
Linda Ronstadt is an interesting case. She has one of the all time great singing voices. But, all (I think) of her hit songs are covers. Though her version is often the most famous now. I wonder how that impacts her forgettability.
You could be right, although I think people need to evaluate the quality of someone's voice as a contributing factor to greatness. Ronstadt's music needs to be played more for younger people to discover it. How about a good placement in a movie or TV series?!
You alluded to it with Mellencamp, but I wonder how this tracks with the true sustainability of a career? Manilow still headlines in Vegas, Rick Springfield is a regular at Casinos and venues around the country. Herman's Hermits and Paul Revere and the Raiders do shows together at state fairs. Do you think an X number of hits, no matter the period, ensures a long career no matter the current popularity on Spotify. Back to the idea that a core of true fans can support an artist indefinitely?
Yes. I think if you have 10 top 40 hits at least over a few years, you’re guaranteed a career if you want to take it. Might not be glamorous but someone will always be down to book someone with a few songs that people know
As far as newer generations being unaware of The Beatles, I'm sure that's at least somewhat true. But certainly they also have the biggest "pullthrough rate" of any older artist that newbies are introduced to. I'm sure they are the only artist where people who "don't really know them" would probably recognize 10+ songs too.
Oddly, I've at least heard of most of the people on your 70s and 80s lists, while i had never even heard of most of the 60s artists (I was born in 1985)
If you could find a good data source, you could also look at FM rock popularity. For example, Jethro Tull was ubiquitous on FM rock for most of the 1970s, but seems less remembered today than less popular bands at the time like Black Sabbath.
All very fascinating. As a 60s gold listener on Sirius XM, I've heard a lot of the forgotten 60s acts. Most have been forgotten for a reason - I'll pass on Jerry Lewis' kid and Herman's Hermits - though I do really like Tommy Roe's "Dizzy." Good hit from the late 60s.
What's really fun too is to go back and see, in what particular year, the best-selling singles were. Whereas "California Dreamin'" is much remembered today and wouldn't shock anyone as the top single of 1965, practically no one knows that the best-selling single of 1967 was Lulu's "To Sir With Love" and, in fact, no Beatles song seemed to crack the top 50. A lot of people we forget could, for a period, outsell the Beatles.
Herb Alpert outsold The Beatles! Some say Alpert’s “Whipped Cream and Other Delights” is the most re-sold album of all-time cause everyone is always getting rid of it lol
If you go back and watch the movie “To Sir With Love”, which was fantastically popular in fall/winter of ‘67-‘68, and listen to Lulu in that context you’ll love the song all over again.
Fantastic post! Now do the inverse - which are remembered most fondly. I'll say this - this was born from a discussion with my kids (11 and 13), who feel no-one listens to The Beatles anymore, and they are way less popular than Michael Jackson. I scoffed at this, but realise I don't have anything to measure it with.
Some surprises here. I wonder if there's a correlation with how many big hits an artist had. Take Rick Springfield. He had 16 (!) top 40 songs, but I can only name one. (And I saw him in concert back in the mid-80's.) The rest just aren't very memorable. But then there's Carole King, who had multiple huge hits. So maybe that's not it.
Another surprise is that Huey Lewis and the News is there tied with Billy Ocean and Culture Club for their popularity score. Nothing against those artists, but come on. How are people forgetting Huey? "The Power of Love" is one of the best songs of the entire decade.
The thing about the Beatles is that they were a children's band. For the Benefit of Mr Kite. Mean Mr. Mustard. Octopus' Garden. No one seriously believes this is adult music or even rock music. Sure, when I was EIGHT I thought The Fabs were the greatest, but one puts away childish things.
Is it possible that using Spotify for this analysis skews the data since fans at an age that appreciates the forgotten music, may not use Spotify and may own recordings of these artists on vinyl, CDs or iTunes libraries. Maybe that insight is buried later in the article, I confess that I lost interest when I lost faith in your methodology and assumptions. I own 2000+ songs on iTunes, including most of Tapestry.
Mary Wells had the voice of an angel. We lost her too soon. I never get tired of listening to Junior Walker and the All-Stars, who had some of the greatest session musicians of all time on their tracks. Johnny Rivers is very much worth revisiting. And The Iceman, Jerry Butler is an icon of great soul crooning. He should never be forgotten.
Sir Elton’s collabs with current stars and biopic are keeping him in the modern limelight. Now, he and Madonna are working on a song after making up. I’m happy for him. Carole deserves a biopic— her life story is incredible! And a few collabs with true marketing support would jump her back into the spotlight. A great songwriter has no age limits. Of course, she may. It went that. She could be 100% happy living her best life in Hawaii. 🙂
A very interesting topic today! I think 80's pop and rock is still remembered more in the public consciousness because it's still regularly played on FM radio, at sporting events and in supermarkets.
It's interesting to think, when I was growing up in the 90's, "Golden oldies" radio meant 50's and 60's music. Now that means music from the 70's, 80's and even 90's.
The mention of Mary Wells reminded me that I mildly disagree with “My Girl” being an answer to “My Guy” in your “Ask Chris” column. Motown writers turned out a ton of material in those days. The best answer song that did about as well as the original was written and produced by Holland-Dozier-Holland for the Four Tops. “I Can’t Help Myself” was a big hit, and Berry Gordy asked for another one just like it. So H-D-H and the 4 Tops threw it right back at him, with the follow-up: “It’s the Same Old Song,” and it was, but it was also a hit.😎✌️💃🏼
Wow that’s a great story
You offer a lot to talk about, Chris.
Great article, Chris. We are seeing this at weddings, too, in that anything older than the 90s is classic music. It's almost to the point that the '90s are working their way to being classic, too. I think when I DJ'd in the 90s, many of the artists were on my playlists you mentioned like Three Dog Night's Joy To The World, and John Mellencamp's Hurt So Good.
Hopefully, all music has a return to some extent and will not be forgotten. I guess that is our job to pass on.
I feel like “classic rock” now is like blink-182
No actually it would be no doubt 😎
Hah!
What an awesome analysis. To me it shows how the explosion of apps like TikTok have changed the game when it comes to musical attitudes. But a 15 second clip is nothing compared to 7 minutes of Hey Jude.
This is interesting AND disturbing! Clearly Spotify has not been including some of my playlists in its tabulations.... It makes me want to heighten my own coverage of many of these artists such as Linda Ronstadt, Carole King, Donna Summer, The Pointer Sisters, Huey Lewis & the News, The Fifth Dimension, Barry Manilow....Ok, all of them!
Linda Ronstadt is an interesting case. She has one of the all time great singing voices. But, all (I think) of her hit songs are covers. Though her version is often the most famous now. I wonder how that impacts her forgettability.
You could be right, although I think people need to evaluate the quality of someone's voice as a contributing factor to greatness. Ronstadt's music needs to be played more for younger people to discover it. How about a good placement in a movie or TV series?!
You alluded to it with Mellencamp, but I wonder how this tracks with the true sustainability of a career? Manilow still headlines in Vegas, Rick Springfield is a regular at Casinos and venues around the country. Herman's Hermits and Paul Revere and the Raiders do shows together at state fairs. Do you think an X number of hits, no matter the period, ensures a long career no matter the current popularity on Spotify. Back to the idea that a core of true fans can support an artist indefinitely?
Yes. I think if you have 10 top 40 hits at least over a few years, you’re guaranteed a career if you want to take it. Might not be glamorous but someone will always be down to book someone with a few songs that people know
Super interesting. Your intro claims about The Beatles are spot on. "Not liking" or even "hating" The Beatles is now nothing but performative.
You would think but everytime I make this claim the Beatles’ haters come out of the woodwork lol
As far as newer generations being unaware of The Beatles, I'm sure that's at least somewhat true. But certainly they also have the biggest "pullthrough rate" of any older artist that newbies are introduced to. I'm sure they are the only artist where people who "don't really know them" would probably recognize 10+ songs too.
Oddly, I've at least heard of most of the people on your 70s and 80s lists, while i had never even heard of most of the 60s artists (I was born in 1985)
Why would this be odd?
Why would this be odd?
If you could find a good data source, you could also look at FM rock popularity. For example, Jethro Tull was ubiquitous on FM rock for most of the 1970s, but seems less remembered today than less popular bands at the time like Black Sabbath.
All very fascinating. As a 60s gold listener on Sirius XM, I've heard a lot of the forgotten 60s acts. Most have been forgotten for a reason - I'll pass on Jerry Lewis' kid and Herman's Hermits - though I do really like Tommy Roe's "Dizzy." Good hit from the late 60s.
What's really fun too is to go back and see, in what particular year, the best-selling singles were. Whereas "California Dreamin'" is much remembered today and wouldn't shock anyone as the top single of 1965, practically no one knows that the best-selling single of 1967 was Lulu's "To Sir With Love" and, in fact, no Beatles song seemed to crack the top 50. A lot of people we forget could, for a period, outsell the Beatles.
Herb Alpert outsold The Beatles! Some say Alpert’s “Whipped Cream and Other Delights” is the most re-sold album of all-time cause everyone is always getting rid of it lol
Herb Alpert made so much money the UCLA School of Music is named after him
I don't recognize a lot of those 60's names. But I'm guessing I would recognize a lot of the songs if I heard them.
If you go back and watch the movie “To Sir With Love”, which was fantastically popular in fall/winter of ‘67-‘68, and listen to Lulu in that context you’ll love the song all over again.
It's a really good song! Enjoyed it on Sirius recently.
Fantastic post! Now do the inverse - which are remembered most fondly. I'll say this - this was born from a discussion with my kids (11 and 13), who feel no-one listens to The Beatles anymore, and they are way less popular than Michael Jackson. I scoffed at this, but realise I don't have anything to measure it with.
I'll have to look but I'm pretty sure MJ is more popular currently but they are kind of in the same league just by popularity on Spotify
I guarantee you that, right now at your local music store, sheet music for the Beatles outnumbers that for any other pop or rock artist.
Some surprises here. I wonder if there's a correlation with how many big hits an artist had. Take Rick Springfield. He had 16 (!) top 40 songs, but I can only name one. (And I saw him in concert back in the mid-80's.) The rest just aren't very memorable. But then there's Carole King, who had multiple huge hits. So maybe that's not it.
Another surprise is that Huey Lewis and the News is there tied with Billy Ocean and Culture Club for their popularity score. Nothing against those artists, but come on. How are people forgetting Huey? "The Power of Love" is one of the best songs of the entire decade.
I had Springfield first 3 albums when I was a kid. I loved them (still do). To me, he had about 40 hits! Lol
The thing about the Beatles is that they were a children's band. For the Benefit of Mr Kite. Mean Mr. Mustard. Octopus' Garden. No one seriously believes this is adult music or even rock music. Sure, when I was EIGHT I thought The Fabs were the greatest, but one puts away childish things.
Is it possible that using Spotify for this analysis skews the data since fans at an age that appreciates the forgotten music, may not use Spotify and may own recordings of these artists on vinyl, CDs or iTunes libraries. Maybe that insight is buried later in the article, I confess that I lost interest when I lost faith in your methodology and assumptions. I own 2000+ songs on iTunes, including most of Tapestry.
Mary Wells had the voice of an angel. We lost her too soon. I never get tired of listening to Junior Walker and the All-Stars, who had some of the greatest session musicians of all time on their tracks. Johnny Rivers is very much worth revisiting. And The Iceman, Jerry Butler is an icon of great soul crooning. He should never be forgotten.
Sir Elton’s collabs with current stars and biopic are keeping him in the modern limelight. Now, he and Madonna are working on a song after making up. I’m happy for him. Carole deserves a biopic— her life story is incredible! And a few collabs with true marketing support would jump her back into the spotlight. A great songwriter has no age limits. Of course, she may. It went that. She could be 100% happy living her best life in Hawaii. 🙂
A very interesting topic today! I think 80's pop and rock is still remembered more in the public consciousness because it's still regularly played on FM radio, at sporting events and in supermarkets.
It's interesting to think, when I was growing up in the 90's, "Golden oldies" radio meant 50's and 60's music. Now that means music from the 70's, 80's and even 90's.