Besides the three Dreams songs, there’s also These Dreams by Heart and of course Dream On by Aerosmith, but surprisingly not Dream Police by Cheap Trick.
A lesser-known but worthy song is Dreams by Joe Walsh on his album The Smoker You Drink, the Player You Get. Same album as the rock classic Rocky Mountain Way.
That’s a good song and album with a great title. One of my free LP selections back when I first signed up for Columbia House after seeing an ad in the funny pages.
"There are only so many times you can listen to “Hotel California” and “R.O.C.K. in the USA” without wondering if there is something else out there."
Are you sure about that?
Seriously though, I think of Classic Rock as being the genre I know the best, but out of that list of the top songs there were only a few I really, really like. Most were just what I would classify as good, not great. There's at least one I can't stand, and a couple I don't think I know. (Odds are I would recognize them if I listened to them.) And then there's Stairway to Heaven.
Every year when I was in high school ('85-'89), there would be a group of kids who would strongly lobby for Stairway to Heaven to be the theme song for the senior prom. It never was, because the kids who were lobbying for it were not the kind of students who would actually get organized and be responsible for planning the senior prom. Or anything, really. And that's locked in as my mental association with Stairway to Heaven: it's the stoner's song. (Which is not to say it's a bad song. I like it, but it's not #1 in my rating.)
Finally, if you think Rock music mythologizes itself the most, I can tell you haven't listened to much Country music.
I like country too (something my high school self would have been appalled to hear). But it seems like every major artist is required to do at least one song about country music itself. For some it's almost like one per album.
It's your old (71) blog-reading friend here with another reminiscence. I also found my own music. Background (feel free to skip this paragraph):
Some kids had a simple record player in the late 50's-early 60's. Most did not. Wealthier girls bought 45s (I was in a rather poor area). Famimlies seldom bought records, although even we had a combination TV-radio-stereo "console" in the living room, 9inch CRT! I already knew I liked music differently: Perry Como and Nat King Cole from the TV, my mother's incredible voice, three barbershop songs I had heard live, and the Four Freshmen that I actually ran into in the local restaurant when I was 8 or 9. Barbershop was a revelation due to my incredible hearing (not a blessing since for example I had to leave the room when some old TVs put out the screaming frequencies no one else could hear. I was later documented to hear 20,000 Hz in a special sound proof hearing test booth...great for barbershop overtones, not great for everyday life).
Then one day I was at my aunts house with my mom. They had to work, so to get rid of me they suggested I try out my cousin's new record player. There I discovered the ALBUM. I had heard great Beach Boy and Four Seasons songs on the radio, but the idea of a COLLECTION of songs on one record blew me away (it WAS pre-Pet Sounds, however). I started looking at albums in the stores and gathering songs into groups, eventually getting a bad-audio-quality 3 3/4 ips, 3 inch reel to reel (pre cassette days) recorder I used to put together my own mixed tapes off the radio, using some very thin tape I found to get longer mixes (cassettes used the same crazy-thin tape later). That's how I invented the mixed tape in 1964 or so.
So my point is...there were no classic rock songs yet!! First, rock was young. But more important, classic rock songs are totally different from other classical music since they consist of three parts:
1) tune
2) lyric (ALMOST always)
3) and this is the big one: ARTIST DOING THE PERFORMANCE LIVE OR IN STUDIO
Before people could buy records and eventually make their own recordings, there was no chance to constantly soak in a song, for years maybe. Songs in the 40s and 50s were NOT connected to individual performances, 9 times out of 10. Sure Frank or Bing or Ella made the song or hit, but it did not play for long and there was no way for individuals to keep playing their favorites once the radio did not, although those who could afford records might, and those who could play piano certainly did, but NOT necessarily connected to the performers. The existence of shows like Your Hit Parade (which I HATED as a kid), where a small group sang a bunch of hits, shows the disconnect. Plus the sale of sheet music showed that a song was often popular without being connected to a particular performance. Radio play actually worked AGAINST the formation of a classic rock canon! The top 40 stations guaranteed that play of great songs would diminish quickly. Recordings, and eventually home recordings for the (majority) of kids who could not buy all the records they wanted, was what made rock songs long lasting enough to become classics.
Hi Chris. This is superb and I have opinions! As always, evaluating music is almost completely subjective. In decreasing order of positivity:
1. I've thought for many years that "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" is one of the best songs from the 1980s. It belongs among the greatest rock songs.
2. It's not surprising that "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad" dropped off the list. The studio version with Duane Allman has a manic quality to it, too fast. But the live version from the album In Concert by Derek and the Dominos (recorded in October 1970) is amazing, and I'm not alone in that assessment. This version is approximately 9:30 in length. The quartet generates so much heat — it is arguably Clapton's greatest moment.
3. I hope I'm not hurting feelings here, but the fact that "Kashmir" is rated in the top ten of classic rock songs is mystifying to me. There must be forty songs by Led Zeppelin I enjoy more.
"Kashmir" is popular bc it's one of LZ's most compelling song "feels" in their whole catalogue; it really evokes traveling by camelback through an Eastern desert at night, with that thudding rhythm. Even many people who don't ordinarily like Zeppelin, or even hard rock in general (according to my unscientific polling over the years), seem to love "Kashmir". It has a magisterial, processional quality that people respond to in a way that seems to exist outside of "rock n' roll". That's my hypothesis, anyway; for what it's worth.
I wasn't sure what the song "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad" is. So I went to YouTube. I don't think I've ever heard that song before. I've been listening to classic rock radio (in Los Angeles) for 40 years. (Well, I listened from about 1985-2010. Haven't listened to much radio in the last 15 years.) I wonder if that particular song was more popular in New Jersey than in Los Angeles? Or did that song just slip my memory?
Interesting. I wonder if that's entirely natural (people in New Jersey prefer different classic rock than those in Los Angeles), or if it has to do more with what the DJ's (or even record labels?) were pushing in those markets?
I always thought Kashmir would make a great 5 minute song. The riff is cool, the polyrhythm thing is cool the bridge is great but there's too many repeats!
Agreed about Everybody Wants to Rule the World. I have to continue evangelizing this cover: https://youtu.be/kPDT4SM_WSg
I considered calculating this but I was so insanely small it was nearly 0. Joan Jett. Pat Benatar. Stevie Nicks. Debby Harry. Lita Ford. Not much beyond that.
I just wanted to mention that my book finally arrived over the weekend. I ordered it months ago. The publisher e-mailed me in early November to say the order was processing. But I never received a book. I e-mailed about 2 weeks ago and they said they ran out of stock. The first printing sold so quicker than they anticipated, so they had to start doing some "print-on-demand" runs.
That sounds like good news for you Chris. Congrats!
"If you were to institute some objective standard of what qualified as a classic rock song, Prince would have some that fit...but listeners don’t perceive him as part of the canon."
Because listeners of classic rock tend to be old and white, two characteristics that might make them less accepting of a Prince song than, say, a Springsteen song from the same era.
Race might be part of it, but I think in Prince's case some of it might be his general vibe and the rest of his catalog. His style and wardrobe seems a little more in line with what pop music stars were doing (though it's a fine line between that and some of the glam rock stuff), but also if he had kept making more "rock" sounding music after "Little Red Corvette", instead of the pop/funk/whatever that he did in the 80's and 90's, that maybe classic rock fans would be more tolerant of hearing "1999"? Just a thought. Occasionally black artists make it in to classic rock, such as Jimi Hendrix and Living Colour.
I remember avidly listening to the WNEW 102.7 classic-rock lists in the 1980s; the year I remember best, both Won't Get Fooled Again and Baba O'Riley were in the top 5. Hey Jude was much further down IIRC.
I remember a list published in the Washington Post in about 1968 by radio station WMOD-FM of the best “Golden Oldies”. (This was the term before “classic rock” was coined.)
WMOD concluded that “Blue Moon” by the Marcels was #1 and many of the rest of the Top 10 were songs by Elvis, Ricky Nelson, and Buddy Holly.
Of course in 1967, 9/10ths of the songs on the Q104 list were still years in the future. Were there any songs on the list older than early Beatles/Stones?
Two things: your book arrived from the publisher today. The other is, do you subscribe to Sean Ross’ newsletter “Ross on Radio”? (Non-Substack.) He’s been following Kansas City’s KCMO, a classic hits station pulling down an enormous (15.plus) share, without leaving the 1980s. You’ll find it interesting, I think.
Seven Nation Army is the most recent song that is inarguably classic rock. One reason I love the White Stripes is they prove the rock canon will always remain open to anyone who wants a shot at entering it. They are also a nice bridge between mainstream and indie rock, which will hopefully allow a bunch of 2000s-10s artists to achieve classic rock status (Tame Impala are well on their way)
Fascinating read. As someone who primarily listens to music from the 20th century, the idea of “classic rock” is so convoluted but it’s always my #1 genre of music on Spotify. I don’t mind grouping 90s music into classic rock, but 2000s is a stretch due to the explosion of emo rock.
I recently put out my first book—linked at the end of this piece—and in chapters 6 and 11, I trace the representation of women in the pop and rock worlds. I looked at a huge sample of classic rock radio playlists in one of those chapters and 94.6% of songs were performed by solo artists who were men or groups of all men. But if you were to look for solo women artists or groups of only women it is very, very small.
Besides the three Dreams songs, there’s also These Dreams by Heart and of course Dream On by Aerosmith, but surprisingly not Dream Police by Cheap Trick.
A lesser-known but worthy song is Dreams by Joe Walsh on his album The Smoker You Drink, the Player You Get. Same album as the rock classic Rocky Mountain Way.
That’s a good song and album with a great title. One of my free LP selections back when I first signed up for Columbia House after seeing an ad in the funny pages.
"There are only so many times you can listen to “Hotel California” and “R.O.C.K. in the USA” without wondering if there is something else out there."
Are you sure about that?
Seriously though, I think of Classic Rock as being the genre I know the best, but out of that list of the top songs there were only a few I really, really like. Most were just what I would classify as good, not great. There's at least one I can't stand, and a couple I don't think I know. (Odds are I would recognize them if I listened to them.) And then there's Stairway to Heaven.
Every year when I was in high school ('85-'89), there would be a group of kids who would strongly lobby for Stairway to Heaven to be the theme song for the senior prom. It never was, because the kids who were lobbying for it were not the kind of students who would actually get organized and be responsible for planning the senior prom. Or anything, really. And that's locked in as my mental association with Stairway to Heaven: it's the stoner's song. (Which is not to say it's a bad song. I like it, but it's not #1 in my rating.)
Finally, if you think Rock music mythologizes itself the most, I can tell you haven't listened to much Country music.
I love country but I agree with you. And so many pretenders.
I like country too (something my high school self would have been appalled to hear). But it seems like every major artist is required to do at least one song about country music itself. For some it's almost like one per album.
Hi
It's your old (71) blog-reading friend here with another reminiscence. I also found my own music. Background (feel free to skip this paragraph):
Some kids had a simple record player in the late 50's-early 60's. Most did not. Wealthier girls bought 45s (I was in a rather poor area). Famimlies seldom bought records, although even we had a combination TV-radio-stereo "console" in the living room, 9inch CRT! I already knew I liked music differently: Perry Como and Nat King Cole from the TV, my mother's incredible voice, three barbershop songs I had heard live, and the Four Freshmen that I actually ran into in the local restaurant when I was 8 or 9. Barbershop was a revelation due to my incredible hearing (not a blessing since for example I had to leave the room when some old TVs put out the screaming frequencies no one else could hear. I was later documented to hear 20,000 Hz in a special sound proof hearing test booth...great for barbershop overtones, not great for everyday life).
Then one day I was at my aunts house with my mom. They had to work, so to get rid of me they suggested I try out my cousin's new record player. There I discovered the ALBUM. I had heard great Beach Boy and Four Seasons songs on the radio, but the idea of a COLLECTION of songs on one record blew me away (it WAS pre-Pet Sounds, however). I started looking at albums in the stores and gathering songs into groups, eventually getting a bad-audio-quality 3 3/4 ips, 3 inch reel to reel (pre cassette days) recorder I used to put together my own mixed tapes off the radio, using some very thin tape I found to get longer mixes (cassettes used the same crazy-thin tape later). That's how I invented the mixed tape in 1964 or so.
Incredible!
So my point is...there were no classic rock songs yet!! First, rock was young. But more important, classic rock songs are totally different from other classical music since they consist of three parts:
1) tune
2) lyric (ALMOST always)
3) and this is the big one: ARTIST DOING THE PERFORMANCE LIVE OR IN STUDIO
Before people could buy records and eventually make their own recordings, there was no chance to constantly soak in a song, for years maybe. Songs in the 40s and 50s were NOT connected to individual performances, 9 times out of 10. Sure Frank or Bing or Ella made the song or hit, but it did not play for long and there was no way for individuals to keep playing their favorites once the radio did not, although those who could afford records might, and those who could play piano certainly did, but NOT necessarily connected to the performers. The existence of shows like Your Hit Parade (which I HATED as a kid), where a small group sang a bunch of hits, shows the disconnect. Plus the sale of sheet music showed that a song was often popular without being connected to a particular performance. Radio play actually worked AGAINST the formation of a classic rock canon! The top 40 stations guaranteed that play of great songs would diminish quickly. Recordings, and eventually home recordings for the (majority) of kids who could not buy all the records they wanted, was what made rock songs long lasting enough to become classics.
What a fantastic analysis! At 70 years old, it feels like vindication for loving this genre. Thanks, Chris!
Hi Chris. This is superb and I have opinions! As always, evaluating music is almost completely subjective. In decreasing order of positivity:
1. I've thought for many years that "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" is one of the best songs from the 1980s. It belongs among the greatest rock songs.
2. It's not surprising that "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad" dropped off the list. The studio version with Duane Allman has a manic quality to it, too fast. But the live version from the album In Concert by Derek and the Dominos (recorded in October 1970) is amazing, and I'm not alone in that assessment. This version is approximately 9:30 in length. The quartet generates so much heat — it is arguably Clapton's greatest moment.
3. I hope I'm not hurting feelings here, but the fact that "Kashmir" is rated in the top ten of classic rock songs is mystifying to me. There must be forty songs by Led Zeppelin I enjoy more.
Thanks! I have your book on order.
Thanks! The popularity of “Kashmir” also mystifies me. It goes on forever
"Kashmir" is popular bc it's one of LZ's most compelling song "feels" in their whole catalogue; it really evokes traveling by camelback through an Eastern desert at night, with that thudding rhythm. Even many people who don't ordinarily like Zeppelin, or even hard rock in general (according to my unscientific polling over the years), seem to love "Kashmir". It has a magisterial, processional quality that people respond to in a way that seems to exist outside of "rock n' roll". That's my hypothesis, anyway; for what it's worth.
Thanks. This article explains some of the musical complexities of the song:
https://arikoinuma.com/blog/2018/01/unlocking-the-mystery-why-led-zeppelins-kashmir-is-their-quintessential-song/
Robert Plant recently said he is disappointed that Stairway to Heaven is their most loved song, he prefers that it were Kashmir.
I wasn't sure what the song "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad" is. So I went to YouTube. I don't think I've ever heard that song before. I've been listening to classic rock radio (in Los Angeles) for 40 years. (Well, I listened from about 1985-2010. Haven't listened to much radio in the last 15 years.) I wonder if that particular song was more popular in New Jersey than in Los Angeles? Or did that song just slip my memory?
Playlists do differ by region: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-classic-rock-isnt-what-it-used-to-be/
Interesting. I wonder if that's entirely natural (people in New Jersey prefer different classic rock than those in Los Angeles), or if it has to do more with what the DJ's (or even record labels?) were pushing in those markets?
I always thought Kashmir would make a great 5 minute song. The riff is cool, the polyrhythm thing is cool the bridge is great but there's too many repeats!
Agreed about Everybody Wants to Rule the World. I have to continue evangelizing this cover: https://youtu.be/kPDT4SM_WSg
Another amazing read. I love this sort of number-crunching. Chris, is there a way to buy a signed copy of your book directly from you?
Possibly. Where are you based?
The Bronx. Pflanary at g mail
Did you count up the share of women artists on the list??? I'm so curious
I considered calculating this but I was so insanely small it was nearly 0. Joan Jett. Pat Benatar. Stevie Nicks. Debby Harry. Lita Ford. Not much beyond that.
I just wanted to mention that my book finally arrived over the weekend. I ordered it months ago. The publisher e-mailed me in early November to say the order was processing. But I never received a book. I e-mailed about 2 weeks ago and they said they ran out of stock. The first printing sold so quicker than they anticipated, so they had to start doing some "print-on-demand" runs.
That sounds like good news for you Chris. Congrats!
Yes! Good and bad news. I’m glad people are buying it. Upset it took so long to ship pre-orders. Thanks for ordering!
"If you were to institute some objective standard of what qualified as a classic rock song, Prince would have some that fit...but listeners don’t perceive him as part of the canon."
Because listeners of classic rock tend to be old and white, two characteristics that might make them less accepting of a Prince song than, say, a Springsteen song from the same era.
100%. In my book, I write extensively in Chapter 6 about how our conceptions of genre are wrapped up in race and gender.
Race might be part of it, but I think in Prince's case some of it might be his general vibe and the rest of his catalog. His style and wardrobe seems a little more in line with what pop music stars were doing (though it's a fine line between that and some of the glam rock stuff), but also if he had kept making more "rock" sounding music after "Little Red Corvette", instead of the pop/funk/whatever that he did in the 80's and 90's, that maybe classic rock fans would be more tolerant of hearing "1999"? Just a thought. Occasionally black artists make it in to classic rock, such as Jimi Hendrix and Living Colour.
excellent point
I remember avidly listening to the WNEW 102.7 classic-rock lists in the 1980s; the year I remember best, both Won't Get Fooled Again and Baba O'Riley were in the top 5. Hey Jude was much further down IIRC.
This is how I feel about Baba O’Riley https://youtu.be/I79YNDYrUno?si=C6pum3lLXgDCru2G
I remember a list published in the Washington Post in about 1968 by radio station WMOD-FM of the best “Golden Oldies”. (This was the term before “classic rock” was coined.)
WMOD concluded that “Blue Moon” by the Marcels was #1 and many of the rest of the Top 10 were songs by Elvis, Ricky Nelson, and Buddy Holly.
Of course in 1967, 9/10ths of the songs on the Q104 list were still years in the future. Were there any songs on the list older than early Beatles/Stones?
There was one or two by Elvis
I think one of the things happening with Clapton is that people are finding out what a damn racist he was, I hear it mentioned.
ABACAB! Because that's the structure of the song!
https://youtu.be/suCNZe3Gwkw?si=5yNZHNNdLUf4lDSE
Two things: your book arrived from the publisher today. The other is, do you subscribe to Sean Ross’ newsletter “Ross on Radio”? (Non-Substack.) He’s been following Kansas City’s KCMO, a classic hits station pulling down an enormous (15.plus) share, without leaving the 1980s. You’ll find it interesting, I think.
Oh cool. I’ll have to check that out
Is KCMO what used to be “Oldies 95” (do-wop and Motown)? KCFX is the comparable “Classic Rock” station with Frampton et al.
Don’t know,I’m not in KC. That’s why i suggested Ross on Radio, he’s the man.
Seven Nation Army is the most recent song that is inarguably classic rock. One reason I love the White Stripes is they prove the rock canon will always remain open to anyone who wants a shot at entering it. They are also a nice bridge between mainstream and indie rock, which will hopefully allow a bunch of 2000s-10s artists to achieve classic rock status (Tame Impala are well on their way)
Great post! One disagreement: I've always thought of funk and the blues as the most self-referential genres
Fascinating read. As someone who primarily listens to music from the 20th century, the idea of “classic rock” is so convoluted but it’s always my #1 genre of music on Spotify. I don’t mind grouping 90s music into classic rock, but 2000s is a stretch due to the explosion of emo rock.
That’s wild!! I guess I always knew there weren’t many women considered “classic rock” but near zero is 👀
I recently put out my first book—linked at the end of this piece—and in chapters 6 and 11, I trace the representation of women in the pop and rock worlds. I looked at a huge sample of classic rock radio playlists in one of those chapters and 94.6% of songs were performed by solo artists who were men or groups of all men. But if you were to look for solo women artists or groups of only women it is very, very small.