I struggle with this argument. Most people actually *can’t* make music, at least of any quality. A child clapping is “music”, sure, but not art. The percentage of humans who can make music of quality is vanishingly small. I’m reasonably musical, play an instrument, and I’ve "made" a song with Suno, but that was months ago and I’ve never done it again, because I don’t have the desire - there’s no music in me trying to get out. But I could not / would not have made that artifact without Suno.
Conversely, I’ve written an entire book. An enormous effort. I could have used AI to do some of it, but what would have been the point?
If you use AI to make something, in what sense have you really “made” it? More like you “requested” it. Art happens when the artist has some inner truth that wants to come out. It usually requires effort and sacrifice and craft, none of which are much required to use AI. I suspect most people's use of Suno will be one-and-done, unless they need an artifact for their job (a jingle, let's say) - or a logo created with AI image gen - these things are not art, they are work artifacts, largely.
AI may well create entertainment, but I don’t think it can create art, because art is a relationship, not an artifact.
Such a good post, Chris! Agree with all of this. The desire to just make things appear without the work or effort is so antithetical to the artmaking process.
When I was an undergrad, three friends and I put on a concert in my dorm and invited a few friends. It was a lot of fun. One of our friends wrote for the campus magazine and put up a piece on their blog about it, mostly focusing on music as a community endeavor.
Weirdly enough, an alum who none of us had met went on a Twitter tirade against her article, talking about how music CAN be just for yourself if you want it to be, and how saying it ought to be communal is dangerous or something, how dare you, etc. etc.. Really weird stance and tone. Almost as weird as publicly chewing out a sophomore journalist from a school you graduated from years prior.
Anyway, all that just to say, your point is well-taken! Great piece.
Really appreciated this piece. It's wild how these tech companies founded by people with zero musical experience call themselves "artist-first." Suno's founder literally said, "It's not really enjoyable to make music now… it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of practice." Anyone who's ever recorded and released music knows that's absurd. There is no art without lived experiences and ups and downs of creative soul searching (and recording!)
I sometimes hear people compare this to early sampling, but what's unsettling to me is the difference in that samples were traceable. They were intentional artistic choices, where you could still credit the source. AI crawls through millions of songs with buried sources and algorithmic output. Tech companies mining artists' catalogs to sell subscriptions is simply unethical.
But as both a musician and artist manager, I'm trying to keep my artists inspired while we navigate this. And there are artists like Imogen Heap showing us how AI can be used ethically and artistically, so I choose to believe it's not all doom. It's really nice to read articles like this and feel part of a community that values the human experience - because without it, there wouldn't be any art worth making!
Thanks for this thoughtful piece. I’m annoyed that we’re licensing with Suno for a lot of reasons, primarily that we (the entire arts community) shouldn’t forgive the sin of training on unlicensed data aka stealing all the music on the Internet and putting out the pre-litigation narrative that it’s established as fair use regardless of market harm. That is bad faith.
If I were in charge of the process I’d risk the potential bad litigation outcome to sue them to dust and only license good faith partners. Because I believe any competent court would recognize market harm and confirm what we already know.
Also the licensing framework should require ALL training data to be licensed and should especially consider DIY and independent music that isn’t really considered by trade orgs. Once we have a transparent licensing model based on attribution, I plan to have a blast messing around with these tools. Like every creative person should, I look forward to finding ways to break the algorithms to create seriously weird shit, if only for my own entertainment.
The few times I've ventured into the Suno subreddit, the conversations have been anything but musical. They're more akin to a bunch of programmers talking shop or gamers trying to figure out the best builds for an RPG. That Suno generates music seems almost incidental to these people from what I've seen.
Basically, NO to all of it. There’s no needle to thread. AI has no place in the arts. John Williams can be “influenced” by Wagner; human to human. Rearranging the inspired genius of humanity in seconds for expediency and profit will end in the futility of uselessness. It’s not like a synth. This is replacing us all at a speed we can’t control. There are precious few revenue streams for artists, composers and authors. Prompting a Cormac McCarthy short story in seconds isn’t a creative “tool” it’s plagiarism. It’s an “IT”. Not a me or you or we.
I struggle with this argument. Most people actually *can’t* make music, at least of any quality. A child clapping is “music”, sure, but not art. The percentage of humans who can make music of quality is vanishingly small. I’m reasonably musical, play an instrument, and I’ve "made" a song with Suno, but that was months ago and I’ve never done it again, because I don’t have the desire - there’s no music in me trying to get out. But I could not / would not have made that artifact without Suno.
Conversely, I’ve written an entire book. An enormous effort. I could have used AI to do some of it, but what would have been the point?
If you use AI to make something, in what sense have you really “made” it? More like you “requested” it. Art happens when the artist has some inner truth that wants to come out. It usually requires effort and sacrifice and craft, none of which are much required to use AI. I suspect most people's use of Suno will be one-and-done, unless they need an artifact for their job (a jingle, let's say) - or a logo created with AI image gen - these things are not art, they are work artifacts, largely.
AI may well create entertainment, but I don’t think it can create art, because art is a relationship, not an artifact.
Extraordinarily well said!
Such a good post, Chris! Agree with all of this. The desire to just make things appear without the work or effort is so antithetical to the artmaking process.
When I was an undergrad, three friends and I put on a concert in my dorm and invited a few friends. It was a lot of fun. One of our friends wrote for the campus magazine and put up a piece on their blog about it, mostly focusing on music as a community endeavor.
Weirdly enough, an alum who none of us had met went on a Twitter tirade against her article, talking about how music CAN be just for yourself if you want it to be, and how saying it ought to be communal is dangerous or something, how dare you, etc. etc.. Really weird stance and tone. Almost as weird as publicly chewing out a sophomore journalist from a school you graduated from years prior.
Anyway, all that just to say, your point is well-taken! Great piece.
This is completely beside the point but the perfect “off-kilter song about the solar system” already exists and it’s on The Beach Boys Love You (1977)
Really appreciated this piece. It's wild how these tech companies founded by people with zero musical experience call themselves "artist-first." Suno's founder literally said, "It's not really enjoyable to make music now… it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of practice." Anyone who's ever recorded and released music knows that's absurd. There is no art without lived experiences and ups and downs of creative soul searching (and recording!)
I sometimes hear people compare this to early sampling, but what's unsettling to me is the difference in that samples were traceable. They were intentional artistic choices, where you could still credit the source. AI crawls through millions of songs with buried sources and algorithmic output. Tech companies mining artists' catalogs to sell subscriptions is simply unethical.
But as both a musician and artist manager, I'm trying to keep my artists inspired while we navigate this. And there are artists like Imogen Heap showing us how AI can be used ethically and artistically, so I choose to believe it's not all doom. It's really nice to read articles like this and feel part of a community that values the human experience - because without it, there wouldn't be any art worth making!
AI this, AI that. I still love strumming my acoustic guitar and singing simple 3-4 chord songs. It's still a bit of magic for me.
Thanks for this thoughtful piece. I’m annoyed that we’re licensing with Suno for a lot of reasons, primarily that we (the entire arts community) shouldn’t forgive the sin of training on unlicensed data aka stealing all the music on the Internet and putting out the pre-litigation narrative that it’s established as fair use regardless of market harm. That is bad faith.
If I were in charge of the process I’d risk the potential bad litigation outcome to sue them to dust and only license good faith partners. Because I believe any competent court would recognize market harm and confirm what we already know.
Also the licensing framework should require ALL training data to be licensed and should especially consider DIY and independent music that isn’t really considered by trade orgs. Once we have a transparent licensing model based on attribution, I plan to have a blast messing around with these tools. Like every creative person should, I look forward to finding ways to break the algorithms to create seriously weird shit, if only for my own entertainment.
The few times I've ventured into the Suno subreddit, the conversations have been anything but musical. They're more akin to a bunch of programmers talking shop or gamers trying to figure out the best builds for an RPG. That Suno generates music seems almost incidental to these people from what I've seen.
Basically, NO to all of it. There’s no needle to thread. AI has no place in the arts. John Williams can be “influenced” by Wagner; human to human. Rearranging the inspired genius of humanity in seconds for expediency and profit will end in the futility of uselessness. It’s not like a synth. This is replacing us all at a speed we can’t control. There are precious few revenue streams for artists, composers and authors. Prompting a Cormac McCarthy short story in seconds isn’t a creative “tool” it’s plagiarism. It’s an “IT”. Not a me or you or we.